A little tid bit...one of the major power struggles on the show is custody of lorelei. Bertram wants custody, but only jane is able to deceive the judge into keeping her. When they go to get her, she is gone. Hence, bertram is not rj, but that does tell us something...RJ has a connection inside a federal prison or directly within the fbi that is higher up than smith/o'laughlin
Two more things I'd like to point out:
Episode 3x16: bertram recites blake poem to lisbon, BUT laroche is the one who tells her it is by william blake. I believe this puts Laroche squarely in tyger, tyger. Could he be the pwrson Lisbon mistakenly trusts? Not sure
Also, episode 1x07. Kristina Frye tells patrick, "your daughter never woke up." So we must either choose to believe: 1 - she is red john 2 - she is a real psychic 3 - she knows RJ and he intentionally shared that with her. If what lorelie says is true, the RJ and PJ should have been lifelong friends, then it would make sense the Frye could fall for a guy like red john as she is obviously drawn to patrick.
Thoughts?
Just want to throw something out there...as we know william blake plays a role in the storyline. Tyger, tyger is his poem and the great red dragon is his painting. I looked up the painting - there are 4 of them, and they were drawn to illustrate the book of revelations 12 and 13...I see a lot of possibility for revelations 13 to match up to the story line. A dragon and two beasts - could that be rj, visualize and tyger, tyger...or perhaps Ardiles, tt, and rj.... 7 heads, each blasphemous - 7 suspects. All who worshipped the firet beast should be marked (3 dots). A wound that appeared lethal, but was healed (partridge OR whoever survives the bomb blast)...seems to be more than coincidence to me
fact: the only part of sophie miller's information that is significant is that she does not believe anything RJ says...BECAUSE RJ gave her information on every other suspect, and none about himself. you're welcome
first, sorry to be posting so much. i'm trying to round out a theory, and it is much easier to do in parts. So far, I have:Stiles reactions (both of them) imply 1 of 2 things: McCallister is RJ for sure and Stiles protects him OR no one in that house is RJ. There are ZERO other options based on how stiles reacted first with shock, secondly by begging Patrick to look at the other tattoos.possible RJ's: Partridge, Kirkland, Stiles or someone not on listNext...Partridge was killed by RJ. Heller says RJ chose to kill Partridge. So, if we take that on its face value, He IS DEAD. Why is he dead. He is part of tyger, tyger. Helped stage RJ killings. RJ was insulted he was on the list. I believe 100% that when Partridge said, "red john has been laying low for years" that he was being truthful bc he knew he was the one who staged RJ killings (sometimes making mistakes, maybe intentionally).possible RJ's: Stiles, Haffner, Kirkland, Smith, Bertram, McCallisterRosalind's description is 100% accurate. Let me explain why her account, more than anyone else's, is true. We know for a fact RJ killed the first time 25 years ago at the visualize barn. we know for a fact that even before Patrick's family was killed Rosalind was spending time with Roy and his friend. There is a very old Red John smiley face in her house. We know his friend went to prison, and had been long time friends with RJ from the beginning. So much so that his son had a loyalty to RJ and tried to help capture/kill RJ. Thus, the person Rosalind describes up to 20 years ago, but at least 15, was in fact red john. at that time Rosalind would have been quite young and RJ should have been 30-35, meaning ANY of the characters could be RJ. smith could have been thinner. Bertram, stiles, and mccallister could have had more hair. the older guys could have had better posture. In other words, Rosalind's description seems like it should help, but it doesn't. Possible RJ's: all of themThe list is specific and contains people dangerous to RJ. 7 suspects. 6 of them with the potential to damage RJ. 4 members of tyger, tyger. 1 man who is hunting him visciously, Kirkland. 1 man who knows EXACTLY who he is, Stiles. Possible RJ's: Haffner or someone not on the listRJ is NOT part of tyger, tyger. I'm not sure why people are still arguing this. It is clear that in season 2 he is trying to lead Patrick to tyger, tyger by quoting the whole poem, thus directing him at Bertram. It should be made even more clear that he gave a list of people who are in tyger, tyger, and started by killing Partridge. I believe RJ has been trying to get Patrick to get rid of tyger, tyger since the mall scene with Timothy Carter.Possible RJ: Stiles, Haffner, Kirkland, or someone not on the listRJ has not committed ANY murders between Jane's family and Eileen. For various reasons, mainly to keep Patrick at the CBI and cover up tyger, tyger crimes, TT has staged RJ killings over the years. This covers up their wrong doings and keeps Patrick at the cbi closing cases. What we learn about RJ in the beginning is that he I meticulous, makes few if any mistakes, and his killings are almost always the exact same MO. I believe he killed Patrick's family. I believe he killed Eilleen. I believe he killed Sophie Miller and Brett Partridge. I believe he MAY have killed Lorelei. That's it, and they were all women, until Brett (bc he had to kill partridge), they were all killed using RJ's MO. Throat slash (or head cut off). Every other supposed RJ killing was staged by Partridge for TT. This is furthered by Partridge "Rj has been laying low for years." A 100% true statement, Partridge knows this, bc he has staged killings.Possible RJ's: Stiles, Haffner, Kirkland or someone not on the listRJ did not bug the cbi office. Neither did visualize. Someone with 3 dots killed the PI, another murder they hoped to pin on RJ. That means that TT bugged the pit where Jane's team works. Follow me on this. That means NO ONE on Jane's team is with TT. Since Rj is NOT with TT, that means someone on Jane's team DEFINITELY GIVES INFO to RJ, whether they are bugged or working for RJ is unknown to me.possible RJ's: KirklandAs you can see, there are only 2 possibilities that are NOT eliminated. BOB KIRKLAND or SOMEONE NOT ON THE LIST.This leaves us with an interesting list of questions...1.) We have to assume 1 Kirkland is absolutely dead, Bob or Michael...but which one? The fact that he was killed by tyger, tyger after asking about the group makes me even more curious.2.) who on the cbi team is working for RJ? janes comments to Lisbon about Kirkland imply her. Van Pelt's red hair, computer skills and disdain for Jane suggest her. one of them is either bugged or passing info to RJ. 3.) If it is not one or both kirklands, which character not on the list would pass all of those tests?
discuss
I've watched a ton of old episodes the past few days...whomever posted that Red John hasn't actually killed anyone for most of the show - I AGREE with you. I think Rj killed the people at the barn, Patrick's family, Eileen, Sophie Miller, and Brett Partridge. That's it. I think tyger, tyger staged a great deal of the Rj killings for TWO reasons: 1 - Bertram and Minelli recognize the value in having Patrick on the team, keeping him after RJ is paramount to him staying at CBI. 2 - Some of those RJ murders were covers for tyger, tyger crimes. This leads to why "RJ chose to kill Partridge first" as Heller said. Partridge staged the crimes and crime scenes for Tyger, tyger. I believe RJ loathed him, was insulted by his inclusion on the list, hated that he made mistakes at certain crime scenes and most importantly, by killing Partridge RJ took away a valuable part of tyger, tyger and made the organization much weaker. I think Partridge was accurate when he said "Red John has been laying low for years." He knows this bc he has been the one staging the killings.RJ recites tyger, tyger when he saves to Patrick as his first attempt to push Patrick towards Bertram (who loves William Blake) and the organization that his been blaming him. Tyger, tyger was started by Minelli. Minelli resigns bc the Bosco team murder has put the spotlight directly on the team and he knows or is told this will unveil tyger, tyger.
let's discuss things that need to be explained, but have not yet: Lorelei's attempt to kill Rj and how he killed her insteadWhat happened to Kristina Frye and how are RJ-Stiles-Patrick-Frye all interconnectedFootball connection: Van Pelt's dad, haffner, o'loughlin, roll tide, does it mean anything?"He is ma" - Heisman, many, married, marked, Ellis Mars (el es Mars, he is Mar), etc. Brett Partridge - my strongest theory is that he staged EVERY red john murder we have seen during the entire show. He fooled Patrick almost every time. Partridge is a part of Tyger, Tyger. He cleans up their mess. RJ kills him first bc he is insulted by him, bc tyger, tyger has framed him for many murders to try and catch him. Thoughts?Did Minelli start Tyger, Tyger?Have we been seeing two Kirklands or just one? It is clear, despite what Jane says about her being the most honest person he knows, that she is not. She lied for Boscoe when he killed a man, lied for jane about red john being dead, lied for jane when he helped lorelei escape, continues to give all the information Patrick gives her to others, even when she promises not to. Is Lisbon part of Tyger, tyger, working for red john, or in love with Jane?How does Stiles know RJ? Father/son, Mentor/mentee, etc?Why is their a recurring theme amongst so many characters with troubled past? Kirkland, Jane, Lisbon, Haffner, Van Pelt, Lorelei and her sister, Cho? On a show with maybe 20 characters that matter, half of them have childhood issues and almost every single one ended up in law enforcement.Why don't we know anything about Jane's mom?Why have we not heard anything about Lisbon's brother James? How the heck does Sean Barlow know Red John? And my most significant question...is it possible that Red John did not commit ANY of the murders on the show other than Eileen Barlow, Partridge and Sophie Miller? I am starting to believe that tyger, tyger blamed RJ for every murder using Partridge to stage scenes. I think he killed the people in the barn, and Jane's family, then may not have killed anyone else until just recently when it was necessary.