In the last episode Gale Bertram is the one and only who's requested to be Red John. The episode is classificated as the real truth about Red John's identity and it seems so. But there's one "mistake". Gale Bertram try to kill Patrick when he's in hospital. Red John never tried to kill Patrick!
I think that Jane could be something close to a family for RJ.
I always thought about Walter Mashburn 'cause he has a real connection with him and his phrases are very very ambiguous.
Before I start, can I just say how much I hate Partridge for RJ ?! He would be SO TYPICAL and not at all realistic. Ugh. If you need a detailed explanation of why I believe Partridge is not RJ read my previous post: http://www.whoisredjohn.com/See-a-theory-Red-John/12777
I have been thinking about his dying words - the Tyger Tyger comment (I say his dying words as I do believe he is dead - Lisbon is not that stupid people, and she has worked with dead people her whole career, she didn't just 'think' he was dead ok?). So my question is do you think he, like Kirkland, was onto the Blake Association? Maybe nerdy Partridge who was always fascinated by the RJ cases actually had figured out more than we think he did? Maybe he was trying to tell Lisbon. I mean as much as I hate his character, he does seem reasonably smart, just not RJ-uber-intelligent-manipultive-woman seducer-smart! lol And definitely seems the type to do 'underground' research outside of the CBI official realm. Especially if he had suspicions that there are moles within the CBI/FBI.
I sense he was trying to alert Lisbon about the BA as opposed to seeing if she was a member (who really cares when you're dying who else is a member!). Maybe we will see Partridge turn out to be 'good' or at least one of the more humane members of the BA trying to end it as a final death wish. I mean, if he was actually dying, he would KNOW he is dying (he is forescenic person after
all), so would saying Tyger Tyger to Lisbon really 'save' him in anyway
if he knew he was going to die anyway? Or was he trying to alert Lisbon to the
Blake Association? If so how much did he know and why did RJ kill him?
So I'm wondering what fans think of Partridge either being a.....
a) SECRET SPY OFF THE RADAR i.e. getting killed because he found out about the Blake Association (and possibly dets on RJ if it turns out RJ is related to the BA, which most would presume he is in some manner or another). I like the sounds of this but it's too similar to what happened with Kirkland so my heart is saying there must be more to it... Heller wouldn't repeat same scenario twice.
b) BAD PRISONER him being killed as a way to expose the Blake Association? This would make sense if he is a member which we have been lead to believe with the burned arm/tattoo. He was killed by RJ (or a follower on orders) bc he was some sort of threat to the organization. Knew too much or wanted to leave? Or RJ wanted to prove to Patrick he would kill ppl on his list of 7? Just ideas, not sure about this one...
OR
c) GOOD PRISONER: He was a member of the Blake Association b/c he needed a cover up once early in his career, but knew how bad the organization was overall for society ... or maybe he didn't know at first, but eventually found he was working for a notorious serial killer and got nauseous about it... so overall knew the whole organization is in terrible moral methodology so he therefore wanted to expose the BA .... especially since he knew he was going to die anyway!
I think "C" makes the most sense given the evidence (specifically what he said to Lisbon and the tattoo presumably - but not for sure- being removed). But I am wondering what others think about why Partridge was killed. Remember RJ only kills men who get in the way....
Hit Green if you think Partridge was trying to alert Lisbon of the Blake Association! Red if you still believe him to be RJ or just a low life member with no good intentions.
Walter Mashburn is
Red John
A few days before the big reveal I have taken a few minutes
to share some of my thoughts on who RED JOHN will be. After 6 years of dedicating myself to a show
and never missing an episode I bring you my thoughts on Red John. I wish I had time now to go back and re watch
all the episodes before next week but I am also sure to even become more confused. However as has been the trend with the
mentalist – nothing is ever as it seems and the truth comes out in the most
unique ways. I would expect nothing less
than this same pattern from this coming episode – I do not buy into the list or
the List or the recent methods Jane has used over the course of the latest
hunt. Based on the true personality of
Jane he is playing the game. Thus Sunday
the game will be exposed. Anything more predictable
and the show will not be true to itself.
I believe Red John is Mashburn. We have to remember that he hasn't been
caught yet - so the person must have tons of time and tons of resources. They are educated, a womanizer (12 wives) and
was able to get devoted followers like Lorelei to fall in love with him. He spent time with blind women because he was
a recognizable face. In addition if it
is truly a mirror of Jane who else could it be - who else is as sure of
themselves and would have the confidence to one-up Jane. Look at the foreshadowing in the dialogue
from their meeting in this post attached in the comments section below from
this blog. RJ is smart enough not to
give PJ the real list (but understands that PJ will find out the truth if he is
smart enough from learning about the Tiger Tiger clan). Jane would never reveal the real list to his
team - he is too proud and always does everything on his own. In addition if Jane believed it was Mashburn
he would never let Lisbon know because I believe we will find that they have
been in conversation and maybe a way that RJ knew about the meeting with the
suspects. RJ would know that Jane's
closest friend was Lisbon and would purposefully get close to her as both a way
to spite PJ and get closer to him (keep your enemies close). In fact, PJ did the same with lorelei
martins. Mashburn seems to like Jane and play around with him and is the few
person that pokes fun at him in a witty way. Mashburn would have connections to
find out information and could easily control a large organization with little
effort like the tiger tiger or at least be a part of it. Remember that someone bugged the office and I
am assuming it was not Bartrum (or maybe Jane hired someone to do that). Also Bartrum continuously is calling someone
to relay information. The reason that RJ
didn't kill Lisbon when he had the chance is because he actually cares about
her. The scene where the victim tries to
write on the wall in blood indicates "He is ma" or Mashburn. Someone also pointed out that in the preview
of the church there is a man that looks just like Mashburn with the same red
turtleneck he wears sitting there. I
believe that Jane had figured this all out before but needed some more
confidence which he got with the tiger tiger which hunt. By telling everyone he was going to let things
go and now that he has everyone running around after Bartrum the stage is his
and now the opportunity for Mashburn to come out of hiding. In addition he now has the luxury of doing it
his way - knowing Jane that was always the plan - he would never trust anyone
with what he actually knows. This may
also be a play to be singling to RJ that he has lost to get him to confront him
and get him out of hiding. Depending on
my theory about the secret relationship between Lisbon and Mashburn - she may
tell him that Jane is calling it quits for now.
As we just saw in the last episode Jane was obviously trying to steer
Lisbon a certain way. RJ also was most
likely the one who set off the bomb something that we know Mashburn is able to
build. The writers efforts to tell us
that the list is the real deal is the only deterrent to this theory. However, just recently the writers of the
office said that Michael Scott would not appear in the finally (yet he did). In addition I have heard rumors that Mashburn
could be the twin brother of Kirkland with plastic surgery which would make the
list somewhat legit (however very far-fetched).
The big question to ask yourself is why would RJ make any friends since
the more people his is connected to the more vulnerability he has - unless it
is someone like Mashburn that utilizes bad cops and politics for his financial
gains. Red John would never take the
chance to have himself reviled in front of his peers (or followers). Just like Jane would never take joy in
killing RJ in front of others - they both are waiting to show their cards in an
isolated space - that is the game. If
Jane could make RJ believe that he fell for the list - he may be able to get RJ
where he wants him - alone, gloating, and vulnerable. The only other things that would make sense
is if Partridge or maybe Kirkland (or twin) was RJ because they were not at the
home. However, a fake death was already
done by RJ and wouldn't make sense a separate time. Also if Partridge faked his death who was the
person that got Lisbon. The only real
character that has a character that looks to be a more than meets the eye type
is the Sheriff, Stiles and Mashburn. If
it is not one of those characters than the writers missed out.
Overall if Lorilei Martins
was honest with Jane the hints that he gave him point to a person that is like
Jane and could hit it off with him to be a counterpart. None of the list of suspects fit the description
of being able to strike a friendship with Jane or fit his personality. None are witty enough, resourceful enough,
stealthy enough, or confident enough to go toe to toe with Jane or live an
alternate lifestyle. RJ uses expensive
items such as helicopters, limos, and seems to have not only the power but the
money to command respect and loyalty. I
would also not be surprised about a connection to the cult or another
connection to one of Jane’s team (also hence the purposefully leaked
information). And for all you people obsessed with the color
red as a hint: Walter Mashburn has a RED Ferrari. If it is not Mashburn I will be disappointed.
If you still don’t think it is Mashburn check out some of
his quotes –
PJ & WM conversations (from blog)
wm "i
have no problem with danger. nothing is dangerous if you think ahead. if you
plan it right, you could get away with...i was gonna say, you could get away
with murder but...you know what i mean."
pj, "how would you have done it?"
wm, "she woulda just disappeared,
like smoke. like she was never there."
pj, "it could be you're a
sociopath. or it could be that killing is a thrill that you can't buy. not a
lot excites you anymore, does it walter?"
wm, "patrick, if you really think i killed liselle, there's
only one thing for you to do. try and catch me."
wm to pj, "and now you're
on this hopeless quest for redemption."
wm to pj, "you play mind
games with people. you size up their weaknesses and give them the rope to hang
themselves."
Wm to pj, "i guess you
think i am vain, egotistical, and hate being ignored."
wm "do you disagree?"
wm, (arrogantly) "no, that's pretty much accurate. but, i am also cunning,
ruthless, and hate to lose."
pj, "just the kind of man though would kill a woman for rejecting him"
wm, "did i?"
pj "you knew liselle was stuffed in the trunk. how?"
wm, "i have a lot of friends, sheriff's dept, mayors office."
pj "did you kill liselle douglas"
wm, "you tell me"
pj, "i'll know soon enough. i just need to read you a little more, dig a
little deeper into your psyche, if you don't mind."
wm, "not at all. dig away. it'll be fun." (arrogantly)
pj, "anything for a thrill."
wm, "yeah, pretty much."
pj, (re: the color red ferrari) "this color symbolizes passion, lust,
anger."
wm, "maybe next time, i'll be the killer"
Picture
of the church for new episode – is that mashburn in the red turtleneck -
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/706/9761/original.jpg
Picture and profile of Mashburn - http://thementalist.wikia.com/wiki/Walter_Mashburn
My arguments were recently accused of being logically impossible so I've decided to lay out the logic behind the idea that RJ is not one of the names on the list of seven suspects.
Bruno Heller didn't say RJ was on Jane's list. He said that we can trust the list which is an entirely different thing because there are multiple lists and each one has a different purpose.
The list of names in Jane's notebooks - so far the purpose is unknown
The list RJ provided - exposed tiger tiger
The fake list Kirkland stole - exposed Kirkland's motives to Jane
It would be inconsistent with past season finales if everything were as it seemed. Why does everyone assume that they know Jane's plan? Did anyone know in season 5 that Jane was making a fake list for whoever was spying on him? If the list RJ read out was in fact Jane's list then RJ is either psychic or he stole the list. Now because Kirkland stole a fake list we know that if RJ had stolen the list then it would have been the fake list with Richard Haibach's name on it. RJ did not steal the list so you must believe that RJ is psychic. If you look at all of this information logically, it is easy to conclude that RJ's list was never Jane's to begin with. That means that RJ is either a genius that knows exactly who Jane has met and knows exactly how Jane will narrow it down or the names on RJ's list are different from the names on Jane's. This seemed so unlikely after the S5 final because there was no motive for RJ to send Jane a list of random names but we are now seven episodes into the 6th season and we have seen the effect of that list. RJ's names exposed tiger tiger and because Jane played by RJ's rules and investigated them as if RJ was on the list, Bertram has been framed as RJ and Jane can't kill the real RJ without being forced to go on the run to South America. I've just explained the logic of my conclusion that RJ is not one of the seven suspects and is instead of on the suspects in Jane's notebook. My theory takes into account all the clues from S5 and S6 along with accepted patterns in the past season finales. Those claiming the list is real base it only on Heller's ambiguous statement. The S5 finale was called RJ's rules. RJ's announcement that he's going to start killing again is not a rule but instructing Jane to investigate those seven names as if they were RJ would be a rule.
I include a link to my past theory which explains why RJ would send Jane a list of tiger tiger suspects and how this all connects back to Todd Johnson in season 3: http://www.whoisredjohn.com/See-a-theory-Red-John/11369
Long time Mentalist fan here. Hear me out before you vote! And be sure to read my last paragraph, as this is not a point that has been brought up already and I think you may agree even if you don't like Mashburn for RJ :)
Overall,
I still don't buy Heller's "trust the list" nonsense. Sure maybe "a"
list but not the list of 7. He has mislead us with his selective use of words
many times. I also don't believe we can trust any of the women's
accounts of RJ. I think people on here are really taking these two
things too literally. The mentalist does not 'do' literal people!
There is ALWAYS a twist, or someone screwing with Patrick's head
(usually RJ and his followers)...and the writer's screwing with ours
(need I remind anyone of Timothy Carter - and his weirdo family). And do we actually believe the women who have been RJ's lovers to be trustworthy of providing major clues to identify him?
As
another commenter wrote, it has to be someone we are somewhat familiar
with to do justice in one episode and not have people freaking out about
it. Anyone from the list of 7 is WAY TOO PREDICTABLE (dead or
not). The twin stories or Jane's dad/past Carnival entanglements,
although creative, are too far fetched for a
mentalist plot if you ask me...maybe they will contribute to the WHY of
the RJ theory in the end but they won't be the actual RJ/ring leader.
While I don't actually like Mashburn's character for RJ (not enough air
time) .... and I am still hoping Stiles has some play in all of this as
he's an amazing actor.... Mashburn's the only one who actually makes
sense when you look at personal characteristics of the RJ character,
that we as an audience know to be true. If Bret Stiles is actually dead, the only other person that has even
remote characteristics of RJ is Mashburn, who (in all fairness to
Heller) is on the 'other' list that was not released to the team
(which I agree with others who have said Patrick would NEVER release the
real list to the team). The Sheriff, Haffner, Reede, Bertrum, Virgil and
Patridge even are such boring and mundane characters who would never in
real life be RJ - followers or BA members for sure, but not RJ. Really, anyone from the
list of 7 would be such a disappointment to viewers at this point and
Heller knows it. Plus not at all realistic when looking at character traits in a series! There had better be a twist or this is not a mentalist
storyline.
And for my most important Mashburn evidence ... this is of up most importance ... Mashburn is the only male character I'd actually sleep with other than PJ himself. You laugh ahahha .. but we know Lisbon felt the same.... and he is the ONLY person whom she has slept with on the entire show!
No average county Sheriff, desperate detective (Haffner), obese weirdo
with small eyes and puffy face (Reede), or worst of all - nerdy half
child with no social skills (Patridge) would ever be capable of seducing
all those educated, beautitful young women! I'm telling you Mentalist
fans, the only man that got in all those ladies pants was someone somewhat good looking, good with women, charming and charismatic.
Take any educated, successful, beautiful woman, describe their
appearance and characteristics and ask her who she'd go for. Haffner is
good looking sure but ppl generally don't like him and he gives off
major "DESPERATO" vibes which mostly just make real women run, such as
Lisbon (and myself if I was in the Mentalist of course). If any of you think that anyone on those lists, other than PJ or Mashburn would make women drop their panties on a dime, ya'll smokin' Rob Fords crack.
So I know you're all attached to 'your RJ' but you have to admit that the personal characteristics of most of the main characters discussed here do not = RJ capabilities.
I loved Stiles sooo much for RJ or at least closely related to in some
way, but it's just not going to be a reality is it (tear). So alas I
will be disappointed with the red sweater wearing, boat driving Mashy.
And for once Heller will speak the direct truth, and I will be disappointed!
Long time Mentalist fan here. Hear me out before you vote! And be sure to read my last paragraph, as this is not a point that has been brought up already and I think you may agree even if you don't like Mashburn for RJ :)
Overall, I still don't buy Heller's "trust the list" nonsense. Sure maybe "a" list but not the list of 7. He has mislead us with his selective use of words many times. I also don't believe we can trust any of the women's accounts of RJ. I think people on here are really taking these two things too literally. The mentalist does not 'do' literal people! There is ALWAYS a twist, or someone screwing with Patrick's head (usually RJ and his followers)...and the writer's screwing with ours (need I remind anyone of Timothy Carter - and his weirdo family). And do we actually believe the women who have been RJ's lovers to be trustworthy of providing major clues to identify him?
As another commenter wrote, it has to be someone we are somewhat familiar with to do justice in one episode and not have people freaking out about it. Anyone from the list of 7 is WAY TOO PREDICTABLE (dead or not). The twin stories or Jane's dad/past Carnival entanglements, although creative, are too far fetched for a
mentalist plot if you ask me...maybe they will contribute to the WHY of the RJ theory in the end but they won't be the actual RJ/ring leader. While I don't actually like Mashburn's character for RJ (not enough air time) .... and I am still hoping Stiles has some play in all of this as he's an amazing actor.... Mashburn's the only one who actually makes sense when you look at personal characteristics of the RJ character, that we as an audience know to be true. If Bret Stiles is actually dead, the only other person that has even
remote characteristics of RJ is Mashburn, who (in all fairness to
Heller) is on the 'other' list that was not released to the team (which I agree with others who have said Patrick would NEVER release the real list to the team). The Sheriff, Haffner, Reede, Bertrum, Virgil and
Patridge even are such boring and mundane characters who would never in
real life be RJ - followers or BA members for sure, but not RJ. Really, anyone from the
list of 7 would be such a disappointment to viewers at this point and
Heller knows it. Plus not at all realistic when looking at character traits in a series! There had better be a twist or this is not a mentalist
storyline.
And for my most important Mashburn evidence ... this is of up most importance ... Mashburn is the only male character I'd actually sleep with other than PJ himself. You laugh ahahha .. but we know Lisbon felt the same.... and he is the ONLY person whom she has slept with on the entire show! No average county Sheriff, desperate detective (Haffner), obese weirdo with small eyes and puffy face (Reede), or worst of all - nerdy half child with no social skills (Patridge) would ever be capable of seducing all those educated, beautitful young women! I'm telling you Mentalist fans, the only man that got in all those ladies pants was someone somewhat good looking, good with women, charming and charismatic. Take any educated, successful, beautiful woman, describe their appearance and characteristics and ask her who she'd go for. Haffner is good looking sure but ppl generally don't like him and he gives off major "DESPERATO" vibes which mostly just make real women run, such as Lisbon (and myself if I was in the Mentalist of course). If any of you think that anyone on those lists, other than PJ or Mashburn would make women drop their panties on a dime, ya'll smokin' Rob Fords crack.
So I know you're all attached to 'your RJ' but you have to admit that the personal characteristics of most of the main characters discussed here do not = RJ capabilities. I loved Stiles sooo much for RJ or at least closely related to in some way, but it's just not going to be a reality is it (tear). So alas I will be disappointed with the red sweater wearing, boat driving Mashy. And for once Heller will speak the direct truth, and I will be disappointed!
Of course Red John ist not Bertram. But it is Bertram we see approaching Jane in the church (next week's episode teaser) and he says "The game is over and I won". That's when it began to dawn on me - how would I proceed the story from here if I were a screenwriter?
Jane will shoot Bertram, even though he knows he's not Red John. Bertram was sent to die in the church by Red John.
Jane will then be approached by the "real" Red John. He will be revealed, but... Jane is unable to kill him. Because RJ has a life insurance: The life of Lisbon. He will say to Jane, that the moment he will find his revenge, he will AGAIN lose everything that is important to him: Lisbon, who would be killed by one of his acolytes immediately in return. So he says "Let's call it a truce".
Jane is forced to let Red John go - But the world will believe that Red John is dead (Bertram). It's just us (the audience) and Jane who know that this is not true.
The remainder of The Mentalist show will then be in a world where everyone thinks RJ is dead. Even Lisbon. The thrill will be: Will RJ return and start killing again? The producers could let him come back, maybe they'll decide upon how the ratings develop.
Ultimately the moral of the story is: You have to let the past go. There is no such thing as revenge. And RJ was right when he said "I'll show you clever". He know that Jane is unable to sacrifice the life of Lisbon.
Oh, and you want to know who RJ really is? No one on the list.. It doesn't really matter actually. It could be Mashburn or Bosco, somone who most of us didn't have on the radar.
