ok guys, first of all, kudos to heller for creatng such a marvel and to baker for such a lively and impeccable portrayal of jane. now to business here.

   so what do you think PJ is? a wannabee kid detective who would wait for the clues in a treasure hunt to fetch the biggest motive of his life? and what would yhe creator of the show think? they make sure his plan is revealed only in teh end of even the pettiest of his tricks and this is the magnum opus of his life.....and 4 people other than him know it.....wow......i dont buy it and it makes for a boring chase as well i think. 

      so jane is playing the big strategy in this masterful chess game to trap the king..

   the biggest move he has made to date is the list of fake rj suspects, not the one he gave to kirkland (or planted) but the one he showed to lisbon......i think he requested lorelei to shoot that vide tape for him when they were together and he put those 7 names there just to confuse everyone around him..and he promptly destroyed the dvd which is suspicious...so i think he is just confusing everyone else and even rj if he is too active ion bugging his space..and eventually he would say this is the man i knew from before was rj and just wanted to trap him as he was so clever......and my vote is on Virgil Minneli..

1-  minneli was out of vacations during the mexico killings.
2-  he has been reintroduced in one flash back episode and once while fishing which i dint think there was any use really for.
3-  he is a solid character artists and the promoters wouldnt want RJ to be some lightweight guy like maybe the guy playing smith..or the sherrif
4-  he is well connected and has the age needed
5-  bertram could be reporting it to him as he was the predecessor..

but anyhow, the list of 7 ought to be a feke..jane is planning the ruse behind that ploy

so guys for a moment let us think from jane's point of view..

he would know that he cudnt trust all the clues left by rj as they cud v well be planted there instead..now one very curious thing (most) is as to how could RJ have come up with the 7 names that Jane did....so i thought maybe.....he got lorelei into confidence and staged the shoot about the suspects and thanked her for that..as she had by then started to doubt rj himself..i dont recLL the episode exactly when he bumped his car and faked it and let lorelei escape.....m sure there would have been some place they could have shot that video..

because you know that list of 7 thing is somehow not adding up..feels boring and even lame......i dunno..its gone way too confusing already..


i remember in the 1st season maybe, the mexico killings coincided with the leaving of Minneli for few days on holiday.....so maybe jane knows it..or mashburn?

Who says that Brett
Partridge should be and has been killed by Red John? Can't he be a victim of
Tiger's, as he whispered desperately before his death? Of course, I now am
regarding him as really dead, but there is so much possibility and even
evidence for him to be still alive and wander across country; so if he
is really not RJ and or the mastermind that survived such death scene, we can
consider and credit him as dead; so, if we keep rolling, there are
approximately three candidates eliminated to be RJ as they are mainly the Tiger
squad members (Bertram, Sheriff and Reede Smith); but in the 6x6 episode we
clearly saw that the Visualize cult has some interesting, eccentric and maybe
meaningless rituals that can point out the deaths of RJ’s early victims (which
all of them were women, and women, as we saw, are the inner circle of Visualize’s
rituals), so those victims can be regarded as sacrifices for some superior good
in rituals, and RJ can be created as a fake character which can be seemed as a
serial psychopath killer and his kills may hide the true purposes and meanings
behind the deaths of those women. And when Patrick disregarded RJ identity,
Visualize may have took offence from Jane’s speeches like he has somehow tarnished
the holiness of those sacrifices; and thus, kill his family in return. Otherwise,
I can’t imagine another valid motive for Stiles and Visualize in the words of
being a serial women killer. Besides, I wonder that if the Ray Tagliaferro
identity must definitely reflect or point RJ, or not. Like Eric the Red,
everyone can be RJ, if they have a purpose for using an alternate identity.

However, if the reduction of
murder down to only women means a thing actually, Minelli is still my
candidate, as he was revealed to be a real liability when it comes to women, in
season 2 I think. RJ, for my opinion, has nothing important to do with the
Visualize or Tiger’s, he has his own reasons and goals, but Jane carried his
work up to a level that RJ can’t give up what he was intended to do or did, as
he clearly became popular to an extend that he didn’t wish for, and defined as
a sick miserable psycho by a then-celebrity Patrick Jane, and made Jane his
enemy due to his revenge for the disclosure. If we go back to the beginning;
does any of the 7 from the list have any motives or reasons for killing those
women (rather then the Stiles theory above)? Or Mashburn, or LaRoche, or K.
Frye, or others? Do we have any clues? Well, if we do, I sadly couldn’t catch
one. Who can absolutely deny the conspiracy theory that Visualize or even
Tigers may be using the RJ identity to do some dirty work, without any
permission from the real RJ? Does Wainwright have to be killed by the real RJ? Did
the ex-fiancée of Van Pelt (Craig O’L.) work for the real RJ?  Or can we say that RJ can be imitated by some
powerful people, as we saw before? Partridge looks like a freak that can be stretched
to any side, he is very versatile in the words of becoming innocent or a serial
killer, or even more; and LaRoche is definitely an oddball, but, rather than
that, what was the reason for them to kill women, and women only? I think,
without any other clues, Minelli has some reasons, as he was not confident with
women.

If we can count on that the
explanations of Rosalind Harker are really pointing the real RJ, Minelli can be
a candidate still; and the shrink/psychiatrist’s specifications are eligible
for Minelli to be RJ. Even the missing Kirkland twin can be working for the
unreal RJ.

I just like to brainstorm,
people. I can say that RJ is building up his ultimate revenge against Jane (because
Jane made this RJ thing a whole lot bigger and it is supposed or intended to be,
by making RJ popular, which was the direct opposite of the intensions of RJ,
and making RJ identity a good weapon for powerful people that can be used for
blaming or inflicting in their murders, which was not supposed to happen either)
by not killing him, but insulting him in every means, to a degree that Jane
will consume himself completely and get into such trouble by his own actions that
he can’t escape or even imagine, just for catching RJ. Jane can end up in prison
and/or asylum again, but this time, without any motive or mental energy left
for escaping or surviving there. Then, the mentalism will end… Because simple
killing may be enough for Jane as he is desperate, but it is not enough for RJ.
He wants it to be a total victory, I think.

Suits the age, Has been there from the beginning. Still has good connections. In S02 changed the case from Lisbon's team to Bosco's team.

At first I was convinced it was KIRKLAND (twins) and maybe Bob is NOT dead.  Was that faked too for the eyes of the driver ?  The reason why  Red John was always a step or two ahead of Patrick Jane is because there are TWO of them.

But now I am tending toward Virgil Minelli.  Heller said RJ was there since the beginning as was Minelli and Brett Partridge.  BUT NOT several on the "list."

As per PJ's description, RJ has thinning brown hair as does Minelli.  PJ says he lives with a mom or sister in a blue house with a citrus tree. After his divorce,  Minelli visits (lives with) his sister in Hawaii and doesn't Hawaii have several citrus and palm trees?  PJ says RJ is a fisherman as is Minelli and had a picture of Moby Dick (whaling) in his office.

Bruno Heller originally proposed to CBS and wanted Minelli originally to be named R.J. Patel as per several sites...but settled on Virgil Minelli.

This is a stretch... 
     The name Virgil is a Latin name. In Latin the meaning of the name Virgil is: Flourishing. Derived from a Roman clan name (Vergilius). Roman poet Virgil was the author of the 'Aeneid'.         People with this name are excited by change, adventure, and excitement. They are dynamic, visionary and versatile, able to make constructive use of freedom. They fight being restricted by rules and conventions. They tend to be optimistic, energetic, intelligent, and to make friends easily. They may be changeable, restless, untidy, and rebellious.

Doesn't Red John fit in that category to a certain extent ?

Thanks for hearing me out...

So here's my thought, Virgil Minelli is Red John. The way in which he left the CBI after the bosco killing left too many open and unanswered questions, then he turns up again to help PJ........ His age fits that of a former high ranking Visualize member and his high status within the CBI gave him opportunity to manipulate proceedings there. Through Tyger Tyger he does many of his killing now. Question is....WHY????? Why are all these people helping him. Is it through hypnosis that he is able to influence others? That I am intrigued (and excited) to find out.

Regarding Rigsby and Van Pelt leaving the series. If you recall, Van Pelt has sympathy and a fascination with Visualize so my guess is she gets caught up with them, or possibly is already a member and that implicates her in some way. I don't like the Rigsby is RJ theory, if RJ wanted the CBI bugged he would have plent of opportunity to do it. What is plausible to me is the possibility that he is one of the ones to be hypnotised in some way and is manipulated to kill that way. It could well be that the tattoo implication relates to him and he was the killer. What if the tattoo is fake and a rigsby is killed by Van Pelt because she knew of the tattoo only for us all to find out the tattoo wasn't real. How heartbreaking would that be!?!!?!???!

There's my penny's worth. It would be good to hear your thoughts before tonight's show!

Saison 2 episode 8....23.25. the board seems Moby dick (a little)